Toolkit for Getting out the Friends' Zone

FZing is the most horrid thing an amorous prospective guy can get - for a girl to be FZed by a guy believe me, run a mile. Men are always up for someone they find attractive when they are single at least. Women can demure with the FZ being used Believe me, the FZ is a terrible, sorrowful and dark place of male misery. It is like missing your flight having checked in. It is like seeing a taxi at 3am only for it to rush past you. It is like falling into a dark little hole where you are chained to the slimy wall of manipulation and scrutiny. techniques to avoid or get out fall into these categories, summarised from my findings: 1) Walk Away 2) Set on hold 3) rationing 4) jealousy 5) Call a Friend =============================================== 1) Walking Away This is by far the best set of techniques. It may seem the most brutal, but it will save both parties a lot of trouble in my experience, fZing doesnt happen that often, I tend to know when I get the 'show' from a girl and follow up, or they make it very obvious before they need to use the FZ brush off. ALso there is Tinder but with Corona lifting there are going to be flirts at the office, at parties, in extended social groups and so on. As well as getting FZed on the first actual tinder date. Friend-zoning is I understand though, about 90% a brush off in western societies. You can go into a whole pile of psychological and sociogical reasons as to whey girls do it as a brush off, rather than saying 'no, sorry I dont find you attractive or interesting'. It is often to save both face and grace when you both exist in a social circle though, but can be more devious. However in 10% or so of FZ reactions, it will be caution, fright, playfulness, demuring, etc there is a real reason to say 'hold your horses, wheeey up there!' The trouble is it will be almost impossible to sort out at face value because both are in essence, an insencerity which the party will not want to back down from and admit they were white lying. There fore you need techniques to diffuse the bomb. The first are walking away, or being prepared to walk away. a) walking, literally, away - rolling your eyes up , sighing, guffawing, 'uh-ing' and turning away. This in itself is a huge communication and body langiage can often elicit stronger, truer reactions than endless blah blah when a wall of defence like and FZ 'Lets just be friends line' is layed. Now you are on a risky route but hey, you avoid being the rotten dungeon of the FZ with a girl you really really want in another capacity. So now the ball is in the air , in her court area and she either has to play it if she wants to actually ne in the game, or it is getting called OUT by the time you have left the bar or party or room. You may get her following right after you, with the explanantion as to why she just FZed you ( 'i'm not ready for a relationship' , I'm seeing someone right now, etc.) . Or there could be a text apologising when you can then ask these questions in return. Or a communication via a pal, often to the negative of course. You then have of course, monday morning at the office to contend with if there is no further contact? Simple send an SMS saying, sorry I made a pass at you, but hey, youre great I am sure, but let it not go over our professionalism, I am cool with a knock back as being a plain 'no thanks' b) being prepared to walk away This is in here with the sales routine. FZ can be a stalling procedure. Maybe they dont think they are ready, after the last catastophe'. Maybe it was the wrong hormonal time of month or other things conspired to influence a temporary brush off. The sales routing is simple but you have to be prepared to walk away from the deal if the only card on the table is a persistant LJBF That is NO DEAL guys Sales begins with the invitation, and often there are then stalling tactics by the other party. Objections. Smoke screens to the uncomfortableness of being influenced by another person into some decision which may be quite weighty. So you need to qualify those objections. Sales training day 1. Ask questions and counter those answers with new questions if they are not clear. FZ happens because they are either nervous, or they have a BF , or are up in a promising cycle of dating already, they dont fancy you, wrong night/time of the month, they are with their pals, they think it would be nice but you have to work or be in another social group together, they are sexually frigid, they dont want a relationship now, they prefer FZ and friend sex to having a BF with expectations, BREATHE.....et cetera et cetera All the time dont get on the back foot of oh you dont like me? Stay on the offensive with her as the object, the accused. Oh, do you already have a BF? Are you not single and so on? 'Is this then not the right time or place to be asking you out? THere are lots of questions. Reading the body language will reveal the truth of the matter. A 'get me out of here' posture and short glances says it all, I was brushing you off FOOL! A chin up in your face can mean she is just wanting to tease you a little more, now she has you on her hook to play with and torment. A pause with eye contact and something said a little shyly is more like it. If she keeps reaching for LJBF, why cant we just be friends. Say, oh sorry I made a pass at you, Youre a fun and pretty girl. Pity you dont find me attractive' Oh well never mind, we are cool about this eh? 2) Set on Hold THis is kind of related to rationing, but is an immediate action intended to get a response So I looked at my mental notes, having time to formulate at answer it being CHat again and not talk, and said that , "great, we can maybe talk again in a few weeks time or a month, then I will have met someone new in the dating direction. Because tonight you are the only girl in the world for me. You are beautiful..." blah blah, you get my drift It worked immediately, I left her alone, and then she came back 9 hours later ' I'm thinking of you' 3) Rationing. This is a bit of a risk strategy but if you have notice a chemistry between you, and you know she is the type who maybe likes to be careful and get to know a guy, or has been hurt, then accepting an LJBF is ok. BUT you then dont want to be the soppy BF substitute, cathy's clown, who gets to hang around her and is there when ever she needs a ride to town, or her house fixing up. I had a very damaged girl, who was on the way up though, FZ me. Shit, she was the nearest to THE ONE ever. Tall, feminine, intelligent sexy, attracive and very young for 48. I went along with it and sought her attention a lot via SMS. (she was social media minus due to a nasty, nasty ex BF) Fizxed up her house, went on dog walks. Never ending LJBF comments, so I knew she was nervous and maybe we were faling in love. Eventually i got really hooked on her and a bit love sick, so I tried to back off. I stopped random happy things teksting and MMSing. Pang, five days went and pling pling pling, she sought my attention via SMS or called me. However this became a malaise and eventually my lack of action, being a man , pissed her off as we were pretty much in love, but just couldnt seal the deal because of her history and my seemingly laid back approach, which only hid nerves like handling a handgreande with the pin out. Rationing is about self respect and knowing your goals in life. It means doing wry things like cancelling walks or coffees together or just not answering texts for a day or more. 'Great. Talk later, busy for now' Also you can make it clear you are using your time to do cool stuff, but she is being held away because she is in the OUTER FZ and that is a nice enough place to keep her until she coughs up with a buying signal, THE SHOW i call it - the lingering eye contact, the invitation to a drink or dinner etc Rationing takes you out of fulfiling a girls need for attention and someone-to-talk to. And out of her need for power. My girl above, 48 years old, needed to take back the control over relations and men she had lost to a very nasty man who bullied her into the ground psychologically. A lot of girls get hurt and need to take control to feel they are defending themselves. That is fine. FZ is fine in those cases, nothing to get angry about. Just fuck it though, who needs a tantalising babe as a friend? Rationing your time and socialising away from her also is a form of jealousy making 4) Jealousy I have pulled a few ONSs on the back of flirting with one girl while another couldnt stand it. Once i did it on purpose, but jealousy is a strong emotion a girl will often struggle to hide. They can be jealous of other girls per se, getting attention, or more importantly feel suddenly jealous that someone has you. Strong emotions elicit reactions and actions. Ie they back down from the FZ and open up Coupled to rationing it is a very good method. You just conspire to be on a date when you know she might want to see you, or just say you are. And in the social circle, make a point of flirting with prettier or dirtier girls when she is within eye shot. For the office post pass FZ, then you can say of course ' Do you have any nice friends'? Now out of any context this is a massive insult to someone you just met, but to someone you know and you have made a pass on only to get LJBF, it is a good route. When you get her alone say ' well you know at least now that I am single. DO you have any nice, single freinds ? ......you can add a compliment, they dont have to be as pretty/etc as you' If she really isnt interested you will get a more direct brush off at this point as it is a known strategy of course, but if she is she might make a buying signal, or at least, she may actually come up with a couple of phone numbers or better yet, ask you to a party a lot of singles will be at , or introduced you to a vetted pal at a sports meet or concert. This in sales used to be called 'snow balling' where you get referred to someone who MIGHT be in the market by asking ' do you know of someone who is single ? Maybe by three degrees of snow-balling seperation and two FZs in that mix, you will meet your THE ONE anyway?? 5) Call a friend I should have done this in fact with said 48 y.o. because her best pal happens to be a psychiatric nurse and probably would have been very understanding over a coffee to both my dilemma and the needs of the woman I had fallen head over heels in love with. Just ask a pal if the girl of interest is actually interested in more than FZ LJBF bullshit?? Call up or talk to a pal if the FZ thing is kind of rolling along, and you are a little trapped by her being social while she maybe sends mixed signals out. For an obvioulsy shy girl or one who may be scarred from previous encounters, this is no bad approach. For the life and soul of the party, a self confident girl of interest, this is maybe a BAD idea because it is a little sneaky, going behind her back. MOre direct techniques above are the winning line there. You have to tread carefully. FInd out first and foremost if they are comfortable about talking about her and the situation you are in. You may elicit a strong jealousy response of course, but putting it like ' i really am in a bit of a muddle here, and could really do with your help just to clarify' ...then 'well you know, me and Heidi are friends now ...yeah? Well it feels to me like we really like each other and care about each other and it is going romantic, but I dont want to really mess it up if she actually doesnt find me attractive' Back to being 15 at school ' does she fancy me like ?' but with a serious intention. Like my psychiatric nurse above, you have to know a little about the friend or at least could guess they are close enough to have talked about you. It is a very 'defusing a bomb by remote control' , a little clumsyness and BOOM you blow your credibility =========================== Guys, dont get put in the friend zone from someone you really want. Try and get the hell out of it asap.

Orbiters, Ghosters....Best Not FB with Dates !

I have a little string of 'dates' who I have unfortunetly friended on FB. Seemed like a good idea at the time, but now it feels like they are bad luick pendants on my uncharming necklace of a year of falling flat. Why do they just orbit you, and worse ghost you despite often sending the original FB request ?? Well if you sent them a request then it is clear, they want to be polite, they dont want to hurt your feelings and maybe even want to avoid end up being potentially on some male chat group as a bitch or it getting back to them through old analogue gossip. But on the other side there is a bit of a women power thing. They have you, one they casted off, or one to show their mates or what ever. Either power over you or prestige with their mates, or making another suitor jealous. On that last point I sometimes wonder if dating in itself is to make a.n.other a bit on their toes or even jealous. So we come then to ghosting, where they ignore any comments you make on their posts, and dont like your stuff ....apart from maybe once in a looong while. Then they are ghosting as a power thing. A recent date went well, as did no 2 but she had me on FB and probably did some objective thinking which in dating is a no-no. Why did I do that? to be open with her, to lay myself before her. Well then you are no longer controlling the message. You are too available, no mystery or romance. Everything is explained or interpreted without you guiding or influencing any of it. Anyway, she lived quite far away. And in fact there wasnt much more than the chance of a nice time or two and some shagging. My other recent, very appropos proved to be a lot prettier in real life than photos, sort of unphotogenic. I sent her an FB request after a loong date involving her spare room and a walk next day. She did not accept. Not good. So FB is to be roundly avoided until maybe the deal is sealed, and you are an item. Then things are rosey in the garden What about FB as an intelligence tool? Do they really look like they do in their Tinderland images ? Well the only thing there I have learned is that women who fake their images with older ones or smoothing do the exact same thing in the name of vanity in vain on FB. Also on FB, ok, so who is it? Can I ask a mutual pal what they are like?? The last time I asked about a girl I did the detective work on, I was told she was bipolar before even her husband took his own life, so that was maybe more than I needed to know, and hey, maybe the girl needed a bloody hug , not to be handled with asbestos gloves,. Perfect failed date was exactly that, she was old, intraverted and did not keep as fit as she said. her images were of when she was nice and brown and maybe five years younger. We lived not that far from each other. i found her on FB but that was it, same vintage of images with a nice sun tan and no crow lines at the edges of her eyes.ie old. We did comm's only on tinder and afterwards there was little chat , i asked if she was shy and she deleted me as a match, thank you so very much. You can also block phone numbers, so hell, fdrop the whole social media thing and just meet for a date and walk away from it intact and dont gather wee space junk satelites in orbit around you.

Getting Out of the Friends-Zone in Corona Times

Well I have had some more opportunity to experience the friend zoning phenomenon I dated a really pretty Lithuanian. I am sceptical to east Euro's but she was very genuine in chat, if not good in languages foreign to her. First date started witha hug then, because we had already had some telephone conversations. Which is actually the first step of getting out of FZ in Covid times. A girl may be happy to chat on messenger or Snap , it is safe and disposable and you can play or lie or do what ever you like, and cut off answers or consider them first, or have three blokes on the go at the same time. Talk is not so cheap these days. It is a move towards being accepted and becoming intimate. This , works I kissed her good bye after securing a 'do you want to see me again? ' positive answer of course. But then she text3ed me and FZed me....puzzled..... So I looked at my mental notes, having time to formulate at answer it being CHat again and not talk, and said that , great, we can maybe talk again in a few weeks time or a month, then I will have met someone new in the dating direction. Because tonight y9u are the only girl in the world for me. You are beautiful blah blah, you get my drift It worked immediately, I left her alone, and then she came back 9 hours later ' I'm thinking of you' Anyway, I got a snog on new years eve with some Bollinger she had to drink, so it was a lovely end to the year, but next date was difficult to squeeze out her. BECAUSE OTHER MAN!

See last blog, you see FZ is a way of putting you on the shelf while they consider someone who often was in the que before you, or at the same time and is maybe a little shall we say, appropriate feeling for her. So I prove both my practice and my theory! Also because I had played my cards, it was off my chest. There was not prolonging the agony as I did with a dippy lawyer two years ago, who nervously FZed me all the time in terms of reminding me " we are JUST friends" ....she wanted me to be more of a man and defy her I believe, but also she was carrying on with a married man at the time, so god knows where I fitted in. So guys, if you really are hot for a girl, refuse to be FZed, use this type of technique. Deny access to your support and friendship without more intimacy and potential. Lay your cards on the table and be prepared to take the gamble to walk away, because permitting an FZ to occur is basically for wimps, and the girl looking for her perfect, maliable friend who is attractive but at arms length, on demand like a chihouha on a leash, in fact a gay man who doesnt really want to have her, but whom she can have. The FZ is a sad, loser place to be, I allowed it to happen to me maybe twice with really good potential GFs and it spoiled everythign for both of us. It is not an option, unless they have very hot, single friends themselves. Then the game is up for grabs

Why Do Girls 'Friend Zone'You ?

Through out a man's romantic life, from preschool to the elderly care home, he will make advances on a woman and often get a 'let's just be friends'. Women get this too, but hey, here we come into just why men don't understand the FZ thing and get so perplexed by it. Because if a woman get's friend zoned then it is for three simple reasons 1) He is in a stable relationship 2) He absolutely does not find you attractive (or his type, or you are too attractive for him to be comfortable with ) 3) He is gay, or worse perhaps, asexual. Men then try and interpret a woman*s 'FZ' reaction to their amorous advances, in what they as men understand- how they would react themselves. There can be truth in that above, one to three. But women have a whole list which comes under 'let me think about it' if you could attempt to summarise. We have to understand that men are by in large more sexually motivated than women. This is of course a cultural stereotype, or conformity, but it in many many psychological studies from McKinsey's days, the biological mold fits. Women invest a womb, 9 months gestation, a year or two breast feeding, and years of most often being primary care worker. Men want to penetrate and enjoy possessing a valuable woman. Kids are part of cultural conditioning and keeping that valuable woman happy and possessed. So we have sorted the biology out a little. More on that later, but what about the psychology? Well women find it harder to make up their minds about men, than men do about women. However famous men, or those with stereotypically masculine jobs, are knicker droppers. Clint Eastwood, George Clooney, and any fireman who works out a bit. When we come to the fact that ALL male fire fighters are happily married to NURSES ( LOL ) and George and Brad are otherwise occupied, then we come down to earth with the regular joes. So the first dilema for a woman is ' Do I need a boyfriend anyway?' .....back to biology. Studies show that women are more receptive to mens advances on and around their ovulation and least when their period is very near. They are no per se / necessarily consciously sexually arousable, but they are more likely to enter positive social contact with the oppostie sex. So we can start to imagine possible cures to this ill of being put in the FZ by a girl you are hot for , and maybe feel there has been signals over the coffee machine or while walking dogs in the park. The second dilema is ' how does he compare to the others?' . Attractive women ALWAYS have men after them. They have older men, younger men, married men and divorced men making little advances. Often on a daily basis at work. Some make bigger advances and they too, get FZed ....or they enter an innappropriate affair for some attention and sex. So guys, I have been here....two years ago, a lot of heart wrenching shit I had to go through to conclude the girl of my dreams was carrying on with a married man, and I was a kind of distraction from the stress of having but not owning him. Women can weigh you up then. So let us see then, aha, yes these two issues of choice making are unfortunetly interrelated. That is to say, this same girl in an innappropriate affair, may have reacted differently to me if I had met her when she was ovulating. In fact it went a lot longer than that but she held me off. So how do we sort this all out? Well there are always methods of coping with this. Firstly, unlike me, never let a friend zone develop when you really have the hots for a girl. You are building a nasty little prison for yourself where you will always be looking out the window at the love life outside but not getting let out early for good behaviour. One approach is to to just back off , hands up, and say , sorry , I'm not your type. Hmm, well that is accepting a Knock Back like a good loser. BUT what if you have to work with this girl or see her every day walking your dog ??? This then becomes red faces on at least one side. But if it is someone you have met briefly or don't need to see often, then yes, just say, ok, sorry I'm not maybe your type. Linger then a little with some eye contact to see if this was just a kind of shy, reflex response which is another difference between average man and average woman. In what ever scenario, you have to be prepared to do the same thing. Walk away. Attractive women will be used to advances, maybe not had one in a while, but they will also be used to having to live with it and just brush the whole thing off and carry on being colleagues or what ever. But putting you in the friends zone is like putting the caller on hold when you know you actually don't have the capacity or motivation to deal with the enquiry there and then.+* So another approach is to bluff over to accept her offer. LJBF. Ok . " Sure, we can hang out and do some friends things, whats your number?' This is the wise guy's line of action. If it is a pure brush off then you wont get a number. And what do you do with said number or Snap handle? Reply saying, here >I am, you seem like a fun person to be around. Chat another time. Now you are walking away. You have made your play. If she is interested in you, you will by all means get a reply. BUT she will probably be FZing you once again because now you are a little doggy on a lead, one of maybe two, three, ten suitors.....She has you chasing after her but she has all the control in the FZ to get to know you and to consider you versus the others. So she replies. Send a smiley. You don't reply until next day. Give a polite reply. Then if she wants to chat, say sorry, you are busy. Already you have her on the back foot a little. She wants to pull doggy on the lead out for a nice walk, see how you trott along beside her. Already you are setting a higher price on what you don't do with her than that which she wants to do with you. CHat and consider you. After this you can then choose to suddenly engage in a funny, or meaningful chat with them. Or if you see them at work judge the body language. Are they seeking you ? Are they even playing hard to get? Or are they just not that interested in fact and take off those rose tinted spectacles. Now this is obviously a stale mate in maybe a large majority of cases here. She isn't sure about you, probably either too shy, or too conditioned into expecting the man to make all the moves. In effect if you are hot for each other, but she is just holding up on a decision, you are in the Mexican stand off, each side not wanting to shoot because you may anhilate the yourself in the battle of wills. It is check, but far my friend from Check Mate Most guys sit and dwell on this and think about esculating. This is what loads of books and blogs talk about. Basically this means luring the girl into a more date type scenario in the hope she enters the non friends zone, the moved on to kissing zone. THis is a bit wrong because by this time unless she has made any propositions in this direction, you are the little doggy on the lead and she has the power to decide in yet another amorous advance scenario. At this stage with nothing to loose you could say, hey, why don't we try going out a little and see if there is a chemistry ? Then you are forcing a decision rather than trying to make circumstances fit when, for the hidden unebknown to man infront of her reasons, that approach may well fail because she doesn't have to decided YET again. Remember attractive women get greater or lesser veiled passes made at them on a regular basis, you have to be lucky that they are recpetive sometimes and you hit that button there and then. Another thing you can use then, which I had success with recently after being FZ, is saying, OK, I understand you just want to be pals, and say in two three weeks time I will have cooled off, be dating from Tinder in that direction, and we can be pals' NOW we are hitting the nail on the head. Response? OK I understand, you are a man of flesh and bone, we can chat in two weeks time. Later on, 9pm same night I get this reply " thinking of you...." . I tested the water, is she interested in getting to know me or is it just BS? Does she have something more there? IS she afraid of missing out on me ? The key to the whole game forward os FOM. The old sellers tactic. This offer is only for this week. Fear of Missing out. Now on the one hand maybe a girl is afraid of making the WRONG choice or if they just have you in front of them, that you MAY be wrong for them., That is their emotional dilema. Now with FOM, you just presented them with a whole new, over riding dilema. That your valuable body, mind and skills will be lost to another woman. So here you have two main tools then. Being prepared to walk away, and limiting your valuable time to make yourself seem more valuable and harder to get. THen creating a tension that you are soon not going to be available. I had better nab him now before someone else does Here I went way wrong and was a little honest and dishonest. I didnt want a GF really, but she was soooooo goooood a match for me that I was prepared to be in the FZ. and I said that to her. So I became a zombie. In the land of the sexual dead, which she couldnt over come,. Neither could she choose me over the married man she is now with today, nor could she see that I was going to withdraw my availability. She even asked me round the houses if people should just have a ONS and be hjonest about it. She was flailing around unable to press herself into choosing me because there was zero pressure, I was there, little doggy jumping up on her lap. I tried pulling away, but she would come witha caring text message after four or five days. So I got more entrenched in my own dilemma and tried to rationalise yes, this will be ok, just pals is fine even though the fly on the wall could see we were (in retrospect of others ) in love with each other. FOM also brings us into how to build FOM instead of luring someone into dating. It is opportunities to DENY and make JEALOUS. 1) You arrange a coffee meet out of work times. You cancel, in polite time. If she asks why, you say you have a date 2) You conspire to go to a party or the pub, when you know there will be other girls there. GO either early or late, and make a point of flirting like hell with other girls around the place. Even if you are in no way interested in them! As long as it is highly visible. 3) The big one. If you are regular friendly, and there has been more than one or two reminders of "we are just friends" then ask her straight out if she has any attractive single pals, or ask her if she knows if such and such is single. THis is risky as it is the ultimate rejection. It is saying to her face, I am finished with any interest in you, I am well and truyly in the market though, help me out and at least be a little useful to me. Through all this you have to judge the body language and how she reacts to all this, but you are prepared to walk away from any more than a polite and nice working or dog walking relationship. For me, well I would just know I guess I can read that much, but what are the buying signs? Well as above , a buying sign may first arrive when you first make it clear that you dont want to invest much time in her. You are not an idle text distraction. Friendship might be something the opposite sex can have with a mild attraction, but if you have the hots for her, it is as well as saying ok, go back on the rail, nice to look at, looks like I can't afford you right now. You need to establish a higher value and see if they set a higher price than the FZ on you. Buying signs can be subtle though, but usually FOM gives a decided facial and physical response which shows she is ready to say yes. A little fear there and then. A little reaching out, laying them selves open to fire. And spoon feeding you it may seem to her too. Usually things will conspire to a meeting in some form or other, and very often there are co conspirators at play setting you up with her in a situation. Usually in western countries, involving alcohol as a kind of loosening oil for the cogs of attraction to finally be unleashed on both sides. Another approach when the signals are very unclear leads on from this co-conspirator. I have discussed this with a few women recently and in fact, it will be more illuminating and less risky than you think, especially in slightly older girls when they have a good BFF. You've had fifty fifty, now you are going to ask a friend .. her bestie to be precise. It really cannot be anyone else, I tried not long ago to ask about a former colleague by asking her whom sits beside her everyday, and she said yeah, she is single I think....only to find out the contrary. Also looser pals, colleagues, team mates, old school compartiots may have hidden agendas. True a BFF may want to protect her BF from you,. But it is EXTREMELY likely that you have been discussed until her BFF is sick and tired of it, and wants as much as anyone, closure in this matter. So ask her. Simple as, I have gotten to know Mary and you knwo she is great, but she is sending me odd signals these days...should I ask her out ? I mean a romantic direction? A BFF will want the best for her pal, and if she says dont know then she is lying to protect you. You are the little doggy on the lead, while Mary there is intent on someone else and you are an also ran. "Sure, why not (erm ??" is kust as bad, in other words you aint good enough to be talked about with BFF which just wouldnt happen if you were. A BFF may not like the idea of you per se, but if Mary is keen, then she will say. It may not be a bad thing to obviously flirt with a BFF in front of Mary here , but really it is nt a tall ask to just phone her, avoid texting so that you can get an idea of the tone of the reply. Or even better ask her for a coffee to discuss mary. Rejection of this approach reflects the feeling there in wee Mary. That this is a bad idea, and in fact, maybe you were FZ'ed just to be polite. So here is a final word of warning about being put firmly in the FZ, and then trying to escalate and just going deeper into being smitten and loved up and all is just unrequited.

More Fire from the Tinder

Is Tinder plus and Gold worth it?

Well yes ..,,,and No

A lot of people are tempted to get the pay for upgrades after their first few days of little if any success, or quick dismissals from passing flirty matches.

However here in lies the rub.

Firstly Tinder has by now an infamous algorythm which presents highly ranked (liked) people first in your scanning, They let the users generate a piopularity and attractiveness rating system by just getting on with swiping right. See last blog, a cynical plot mayeb to get unattractive people to pay, and clear out attractive people into relationships so they don't clog up the band width with pretty free loaders.

This ranking though takes ages to settle down, maybe three days or even more. You can probably fox it a bit by waiting to install your app while you are in a large town or a city, thus getting a higher arithmetic like ranking by pure critical mass and chain reaction.

Second Rub

Tinder will always show you the ones who liked YOU, first. They are amongst the first ten you see, often thrown in even if they live outside the radius you have fixed yourself.

So you could just drop buying the app to see your likes.

Well for me I paid this time to be able to see my likes and work my way through them rather than random swiping. It explains though a lot of ' oh god, not her AGAIN* because wherever you travel or relocate virtually to in Gold, they follow you like a bad smell until you unlike them, then they either delete and come on again (i nbelieve) next week, or Tinder deletes the Nope and lets them out in the paddock again.

Now most of them are, ahem, not going to go anywhere with me, but they help a lot in boosting my own alogrythm  pideion hole of likeability. I can then work methodically through them.This is what appeals to me, that the odd gold nugget lands on you and you don't miss them, they have found you on their criteria of age and distance not yours of course,

This means in theory that you can do things like build up to a series of dates in a near by town, by selecting to convert two or three likes into mathces from that town or area.

Or you can try out different strategies, like matching them all but not writing to any of them, seeing then who is really keen on you and makes the first move. Usually that is what marks out the ego like seekers from the ones looking for a man.

Results ?

Well so far I would say the results are slightly better quality than from not g when I last had the app installed. I feel I could control my mathcing, and avoid swiping on the open market so to speak all together. But I can't becaise I am like a shark in a shoal of tuna, I want to bite out here and there, see if I get a catche.

What I am really hoping for is the following though

A lonely babe, fed up with troiphy hunters, either too young or too pretty to get a swipe from me, lies there in YOur Likes inbox like a winning lottery ticket. Or that a lurker, one who peeps out once in a while to like not quite understanding how tinder works, will like me and then I will be one of the very few matches she gets.  Or a new, hot babe, is on the tinder swipe-wave and I catch her before the other guys who don't pay to play.

The Hinterland of Tinderland

What lies behind the scenes at Tinder?

Well the fact is in principle Tinder is very, very simple . You see people to your criteria, and others see you if you are in their criteria. A simple bit of SQL programming and in a local small country server, not very intensive on bandwidth or CPU time. So you have space for quite a  lot of photos.

However the Gods of Tinder have put a weird little twist on this with an algorythm which serves up the most liked, ie popular, people first in any search (discover window) :

Why this somewhat "lookist" approach?  I am a bit baffled. Like the Rich getting Richer, the more attractive get shown more often.

This maybe for Tinder to get  shot of the attractive ones asap. Low server load after an initial peak, as they enter reality land and dating. They themselves feel Tinder has been worth while, not paid for it,

Or is it a more insipid approach, to make the lonely, lonelier? To make them cough up for Tinder plus or Tinder Gold in order to get more likes from people, well , around their own level of attractiveness.

Perhaps it is simpler. The populist algorythm makes Tinder as a whole seem like a more fabulous pretty people night club?  And this is the simplest means of sorting , let the punters do it - more CGM, consumer generated prioritising of prettier people.


Well here is a little old club trade secret. At night club launches and first weekends open, or when they are performing a little lack lustrery, they hire in models (usually hiring girls for hetero clubs) to make the place looks sexier. Sort of also ran models, and descreet escort agency girls and any common or garden pretty student they have managed to press gang.  Does Tinder pay for Trolls or have AlgoBots with fake profiles ? I doubt it very much indeed. Margins per customer are like the distance between subaatomic particles, they are pico wafer thin. They rely on volume, and that it is a consumer generated media. They aren't going to pay people to troll you.

So  perhapsTinder is most likely trying to shine  with the glossy people first, making the poorly liked feel poorer. Relying on the old thing that attractive people don't have to pay to play, but the uglier ones have to buy lots of drinks for themselves and their would be squeezes, so that they feel they have invested in something. Cynical ?  Well hey, they seem to make hee haw money from Advertising I guess by the paltry number of ads for a free app in outset,  so they are trying to make as much as they can for their share holders as any other company.  Attractive people are like your advertising budget, you don't know how much is wasted, but you need an image which sells.

Now how about another little oddity I noticed. It does seem that Tinder seems to serve up new people fisrt, but possibly people who have turned off their profile become new too. Personally I think that Tinder rations how many folk you see, because when I run dry of new people, I switch firstly my profile off, then wifi off, and within a minute I am back on in reverse order only to find one or two new and often hot profiles.

I also like switching it off because then I believe that vice versa is true for my profile, and I get served up more often. Which can be a disadvantage come-to-think of it, because then you look like a desperado, always appearing in the in box !

TInder does do one thing though which is annoying, it stretches the distance  search above that of your criteria when you go dry, and serves up people who have hidden their distance in Gold. THis is an irritation, because there is no way I am having a relationship with anyone over an hour away.

  IS TINDER GOLD WORTH THE MONEY ?


Why do you want to hide your age? Why do you want to Hide your Location?

These are both no-no's for me, although I have tried it and then when I get matches, put either one I am sort of testing, up, or both to then show my cards to my matches.

Also there then is the changing location. You can search anywhere you like. I tried Buenos Aeres having heard of the hot (my type) Brunettes there, and was not disappointed. THey also really look after them selves and look ten years younger !  But that was just tom foolery.

However if you are thinking of moving to a place or just like a place a little outside your daily life radius, then that is a good feature. TO be frank I don't think I ever wangled a date out of it, and I have been on maybe 6 physical dates, the firth producing a year long very nice relationship ( other wise there would have been more dates, sthupid) . So I don't know.

Then of course there is getting to see who likes you. Now at first this seemed exciting, then I was shocked at how far away , even arboad, many lived and also how many divorced immigrant ladies with terrible grammar there were. I am not hooking up with a cleaner from Venezuala thank you very much. There were the desperadas and the pictures of landscape 'shy trolls' .

It does look very like another little trick of Tinder is that your latest "like-you" profiles appear number two and three in the next round of profiles once you have been off a while.

So I paid for somethign I kind of get anyway, but  Amongst them all, there were some gold nuggets. So gaily, sorry, straightly, I venture into engaging them all in Chat. BIG Mistake

CURE FOR CHAT OVERLOAD

More than Two Chats becomes total overload. In fact you are better with one at a time. It jut gets too much of hearing what they do, where they live, how many kids etc. I go right in with "what is a nice girl like you...:" or just "Why are you on Tinder then ?"

So, the strategy is to use Tinder Gold and pick out, one by one your likes. You can totally avoid swiping apart from this. It is a waste of swiping away if you have paid to see your likes first. You may as well carry on and let folk like you, by switching off your profile for a few days at a time.

Also here is a little kind of trick. You can research which pictures get most likes, or just vary the type of appeal you capture, homely, sporty etc, and see who likes you, using this approach. See what is most popular. Tinder does regurgitate your non likes or previous matches, or used to at least, at some point down the line.

Now there is another wee benefit of Tinder gold, see your likes. You can put all the like you's, whome you don't likr,  who would otherwise turn up like bad pennies. But that doesn't happen so often now. Maybe Tinder is popular enough that no like means just that, bye bye.....until of course you delete profile.


Patience is a virtue.

How many can you realistically expect to date at the same sort of time, initially?  If you live in a metropolis then maybe it is easy to line up some speed dates at a Starbucks down town, but if you live in less than huge place, then you are most likely going to end up with one-date-at-a-time or long waits around coffee shops for the next one, getting stood up too.

Impatience on Tinder is risky though. This is where we get into Super Liking and Chance. Both are sessentially forced matches, because some Superlikes go straight to match apparently, and chance matches are just out of the blue, usually with someone with a fairly new and quite popular profile it seems. I had one very, very my type super like me on my new round of Tindering recently.

Also when you have apparently 'ghosting' matches, if they look like genuine profiles and they are ghosting you, then make a quality decision. In agreement with a friends attitude, I regularly dropped them after saying "hello, nice to match" and waiting a day. But people are busy and also they are working their way through the list of matches, which in ANY attractive females case will be long as they get bags of superlikes. Let them weed out the one-night-standers, perverts, married men/women, fake profiles and economic catastrophe divorce victims before they get to you, a golden nugget ! 

Also I ghost too. Often now, because I find that girls who really have the spark for me, make contact very soon. Whereas girls who don't and offer a look warm reply, just want to chat and be impressed by your chat contra the dozens of other men theyt have chatted too, but dare not meet up with (because they are shy, or inhibuted, dammaged or in a relationship)

SO IS GOLD WORTH IT?


Well  you can use Tinder Gold in different ways for different objectives, but if you plain and simply want to meet a local partner , or someone you really like the look of further afield, then it is a bit of a waste of money most likely. If you like the 'relocation' feature, fine, and it can be used in combination with hidiing your distance such that you pop up early in their profile show reel and they maybe choose you instead of thinking you are too far away.

As for Hiding Age, well that is a big rich, if you hide age and distance and have an iffy Tinderhandle then you promote a kind of bad image of yourself without realising it perhaps. Evasive and not quite honest. You can simply lie about your age if you want to appear younger , or older.

Seeing your likes? Well that is an interesting feature for doing research because you can go in and see them, maybe even google them if they have a rare name for the location, and take your time to match them. You can be patient and work your way through them one by one too, only matching when you want to, and making an effort to think about a nice first and second date on neutral ground.

My main recommendation is not how you get as far as matches, but what you damn well do with them. Chatters avoid the issue of dating, they want to chat, and move over to snap to chat, and FB you, soon as you know it it has  all been for  nothing. People in the market for a date need to be asked out after an initial preamble and some humour. That is the besty point to do it actually, crack a wee joke , maybe poke fun at yourself, then say, sooo, would you like to meet up for a coffee?

If they chat-zone you at this point, to get-to-know-you-better, then be wary, and if they avoid the issue, then they are just there to waste your time, perhaps revenging an unfaifthul spouse by being naughty - flirty  but safe .Whatever, after a move like this, chat a lot less. Ask a few questions about what you want to know, and maybe avoid answering their questions. Then talk about what you like doing more, what might be a perfect first date, or perfect romantic second date. .....then pop it again.

After that it is best to either just say, sorry you are not interested in meeting me and getting to know me as the real person, goodbye. Or say you have met someone, dating them , and like one at a time. Chat next week ? Or say you are not very good at chat really, and ghost them.  I wouldn't bother taking them to Snap chat because you can share more pictures with them, privately, by hiding your profile and putting them up on Tinder. They appear in Stream and they can and will see them believe me. Go to snap or Messenger AFTER you secure a date, or the principle of a date.


My ex came out the closet to me as a "chatter". She is too embarressed and inhibited to go on dates, She likes the attention and someone new to talk to, but has no intention of going further, even with VERY attractive men who have great luxury lives and expensive stuff, and are nice and kind it seems. What a waste of space.

How long should chat go? Well someone who is a bit wordly wise and been on some Tinder dates will be ok with a little half hour chat max, then arranging to meet. If they seem to have a real profile then you can exchange telephone numbers, or move over to messenger or Snap. Telephone numbers these days are really good, because you can instantly find out their full name and then FB search them and Linked in Etc to profile them for old picturing (GOD GIRLS STOP THAT ! BE HONEST) or massive attention seeking on Face'  and Insta'

There are some very shy, or dammaged people out there who despite being genuine and not **chatters** want to spend time on line getting to know you. Some will hold you to Tinder because it is safest, most anonymous. That really is difficult, because they appear just like a chatter. But the way round this is to ask if they are painfully shy, saying sorry do you mind me asking?  I did this recently with a really pretty German girl, and she said, absolutely not LOL...so I kind of knew she was just pissing about, not interested in a date.

At the end of the day, good old biochemistry has it ALL to say really. You can build up a false prospect on line, and find out they are odd, or have really old pictures out on Tinder or so on. BUt meeting someone and the first glances, body scan, smile and then laugh and hey, that is what it is about.

Tinder and all the dating apps can't subsittute that, they just facilitate more meetings in person, and you should drop Chatters asap.

Four Weddings and a Funnel

Three weddings

What do three otherwise unrelated weddings, none of which I have attended, have in common, and what do they then have in kind of contrasting relatedness?

Is it the romantic haitus which caused things not to work out? Were they weddings where I would have been the bridesmaid but never the Bride?


No a lot more mundane than that.

The thing is that it was all about being much further back down the line of romance, in fact just dabbling whille those going up to the alter were diving in.

I went through a period in my early thirties where girls wanted me to go to weddings with them,. In quick succession . But also I had taken a girl to a wedding before that.

I went to a wedding with probably the most beautiful but tragically tainted girl I ever met. She was a western isles beauty.  Curly locks of hair falling, a kind of callow complexion, quite tall, very thing and elegant, perfectly proportioned if you like the size 8 long look, Champagne glass breasts. She looked a little french when she was 16 and I was a kind of messed up 21 year old. But years later a good pal got married and we had met up, and I asked her if she wanted to come,. ...we had a habit of meeting up down the years, once in Arrochar as I drove by, I just turned round to talk to her and ended up on a road trip with her.

She looked amaxing at the wedding, straightened hair dyed kind of brownish red hair. She wore pink tight trousers, above the ankle, and a navy blue jacket,. She looked like what she wanted to actually be, a successful actress. Which she wasnt because she was a bit unhinged, a bit of an alter ego me. Lost in her own thoughts often, relating rather badly to the world around her. A distant soul in a way.

She wanted a free meal, and some drink, Oh yes, she drank. And the drugs later she told me. Addictive personality.

Anyway the wedding, we eat and we were a little sociable, It was my best mate at Uni and I was already drifting a bit away from him. Later we cadged a joint and hid outside the hotel, unbeknowingly under the nuptual window. Some druinken things were over heard, amusing sexual innuendos. It was an odd thing. Me with a perfect looking girlfriend, them upstairs supposedly enjoying their prima nocta. None of it was quite right. everything was actually dysfuinctional. The grooms long standing infidelity. My inability to be a manly man, a beast who just took my beauty and seduced her with animal passion.  This was about 97 I think

I had even played with her pussy once.

It was a bit like the forbidden fruit I was afraid to devour, but took a lick of the dripping sap.

Eventually we even met up in the time of the other weddings. She confessed to her addictions and her rehab,. How she drank Vodka to reduce the smell on her breath. The coke. The pills. She then wanted me to hear her poetry. She was a beautiful looking being, but her poetry was a lot of convoluted pseudo intellectual pish. Some people carry it off, but they have a line of logic. To me it was babbling,. Maybe it was good and on another level I didnt get.

She went home. Eventually we never saw again, those surreptious meetings stopped, the gods no longer wanted us to intertwine and try to fix each other. Her being lostness in her own mind, and my lack of self confidence and nerves in the face of conflict.

The other weddings were the other way around.

Then I was the hot catch.

I was still in the days of going to a party and being able to get that little tell tale connection with s girl AND follow it up.

 Her nickname was Spike, and as usual, I wasnt quite expecting to meet someone. She reeked to me of needing a shag, and she did. I think we did it on the second date, which, for a nymphomaniac was decency and holding out uintil we knew each other.

So the sex was great, and she was nice, but a little crazy. More than unhinged. She was a possible because she was nice and the sex was, well amazing, but she was a messy girl without a decent career ahead of her. Neither a housewife for the yuppie business builder I had thought about being, nor a partner in crime in leveraging us into the lbuy to lett market,. Soooo I kind of was going along with a nice in bed, slightly innapropriate post student years malaise type person. It came down to a stinking messy kitchen and some rotten tangerines in a sack lying on the sitting room easy chair for months on end. Bought at christmas, i picked up the bag in early February, to a cloud of blue mould in the air.

Where then the wedding in this? Well of course these next three weddings weren't ours. And they werent those of anyone I knew, or really wanted to know for that matter.

Spike wanted me to go to a wedding in somewhere like Guildford or Leicster. It involved the shuttle or a hire car or me driving or the like.

Moving along quickly, skipping over but a mere six months or so I meet my next prospect at a party. I get this time a nod and a wink, and in fact I had been told I would fall for her by her best mate, whom ensured she would be at said flat party. We hit it off and either that night or another one, we ended up in bed. She pushed away, saying this was just sex. But I was open and wanted some new little adventure. I'd had a nice one nighter with a gorgeous friend who admitted to having a huge crush on me without having to say anything. Turned out to be a nyumpho.

Anyway, this new type of mine she was gorgeous ...from the chin down. A wonderful figure, easily tanned, looked more french than scottish, a huge head of thick black, flowing hair. From behind, it was like making love to one of those perfect bodied babes you just dont really get. But she was an alco baby. She had all the hall marks of her mum's heavy drinking during a pregnancy she probably didnt know about. Round eyes, dropped ears with a poorly defined lobe, and a thin, squinty mouth.

The truth was as simple as this. After my two big loves around 30 years old mark, who both rejected me, I was in the middle of a great shag fest. I was attractive and had a quantum of confidence, and a job which was a bit of a knicker dropper apparently.

Anyway, no2 here of the latter day weddings fiascos, was just not quite there for me. She was dirty, but had her hang ups about her prettier and more successful sister. The one who didnt get alcohol dammaged. She was a bit odd about some things and up tight and neurotic about the relationship.

It was like Esther, the only "long" term mid twenties malaise girl friend I bothered to go out with for any legnth of time. She was moany, a bit pathetic, always thinking I had been more in love with my previous ex. She could be bossy and overbearing too. Uncharming,. I enjoyed being ahem, fulfilled by her but it went on far, far too long for both of our goods. She lacked self confidence so we couldnt build upon each other. She was just a nice shag and she was nice to experience and I had been lonely after my ex left to Ireland.

Esther had no marital haitus. She moved home to her mums, came off the pill, and I lost interest surprise surprise.

So these two others then, Spike and the next one, yeah. It came down to the wedding invitation. The set up to be the man on the arm, That they too, could catch a decent man and keep him.

Maybe a recent daliance which bit me in the tail was karma for all this come to think of it.

Wedding 2 involved sitting in a car most of the weekend to go to be at a wedding I knew no one. My back was playing up and I put my foot down. NO: I wasnt going to be an exhbition Ken to Barbie.

No 2 was quite open about it. I left her in tears in her blue mrk 3 golf afterwe had a meeting to discuss things, which I knew was using to end it if she didnt five up on this wedding noncsence.  " What's the point in having a boyfriend if you can't take him to a wedding*

I had to move to look after my old mum after that, but it wasnt long before I was back there, yet another. This time she was much older and wiser, and knew that it just wasnt quite there for me, nor was the chemistry so great.  She called the game a bogey about the time when I was not really giving a shit.

So three weddings down.

One to go.

COVID 19 has done it for this new wedding. A super romantic affair on an Italian lake for a wealthy family my new squeeze was once an au paire for, said offspring now to be legally wed. It has fallen through and I am wondering If I am falling through and she is losing interest?

It would be ironic, but the boot is more or less on the same foot. Girls wanting a little fantastic romantic get away, man in arm to show off to her peer group that her life hasn't been a long succession of not quite good enoughs.



Well it has been for me, until these last three loves of my life, who are all maybe a bit too good for me.  Esther,Spike, No. 2 and the Hebridean beauty were all not good enough for me.

Odd that weddings are the kind of benchmarking exercise.